Disappearing Act: A Once-Vast Southern California Wine Region Faces an Uncertain Future

November 15, 2000
By Jean T. Barrett

In the Cucamonga Valley, an hour drive east of Los Angeles, a battle is being fought -- urban expansion pitted against rural roots. As the magnificent San Gabriel Mountains come into focus, so do rows of grapevines squeezed between tract houses and strip malls. These gnarled, ancient, dry-farmed grapevines bearing Zinfandel, Carignane, Grenache, Mourvèdre, Palomino and Mission, among other varieties, were once the backbone of the California wine industry. But no more. As is usually the case in contemporary America, the farmers are losing.

During its heyday in the 1940s, the Cucamonga Valley was covered with 40,000 acres of grapes, making it more expansive than the Napa Valley appellation is today. But that acreage has slowly dwindled away to fewer than 1,200 acres, and signs everywhere fly like white flags: "For Sale"; "Available"; "Prime Industrial Acreage." Vines have been uprooted for development, and now this area is fighting for its very survival, even as vintners are producing the finest wines ever made from its grapes.

"The reality of the situation is that most of this land around here is far too valuable to grow grapes on," says Don Galleano. He owns Galleano Winery, a bucolic, 12-acre postage stamp surrounded by the massive warehouses and big-box distribution centers that line the streets of Mira Loma, a community southeast of Ontario International Airport in Ontario, Calif.

Galleano, whose grandfather founded the winery in 1933, has by far the largest operation of the three remaining vintners in the Cucamonga Valley, farming about 600 acres and producing the equivalent of nearly 150,000 cases annually, much of which is sold in bulk. A few miles north in Rancho Cucamonga is the Joseph Filippi Winery, which opened in 1922 and is now run by the great-grandsons of the founder; it produces about 40,000 cases per year. A third winery, Rancho de Philo, was started in 1974 as a retirement project by the late Philo Biane, former chairman of Brookside Winery; it produces a mere 325 cases of cream Sherry annually.

"There's just a small group of us left," acknowledges Gino Filippi, vice president of sales and marketing for Filippi Winery. "But we feel strongly about the area's history and its potential. At one time, this was the largest and most famous wine region in California. We feel a responsibility to carry on the heritage."

The tide turned against Cucamonga as a wine-producing region during World War II, when industrialization began in the area. Land values increased, as did property taxes, which squeezed the farmers' profits.

At the same time, children of winery owners pursued college educations and, in most cases, didn't care to remain in the family business. By the 1970s, too, tastes were turning away from the rustic-style reds bottled in gallon jugs that had been the valley's mainstay. Over a period of several decades, dozens of Cucamonga vineyard and winery owners simply sold out.

One vintner who didn't sell was Frank De Ambrogio. He and his wife, Mary, purchased a Zinfandel vineyard at the corner of Foothill Boulevard (old Route 66) and Haven Avenue just after World War II. At the time, there was nothing but vineyards in the area, but the city of Rancho Cucamonga grew up around those 35 acres, which now sit smack-dab in the center of town directly across from City Hall. Over the decades, Frank De Ambrogio refused numerous lucrative offers for the property. But he died 10 years ago, and the property, now owned by his widow and two daughters, is likely to be developed.

"The irony is that if [the De Ambrogio Ranch] was anything else, it would be a historical landmark," says Galleano. "If it was an oak tree or that pecan tree right there that my grandfather planted ... ." He points out his winery office window to an ancient tree. "But it's a vineyard."

It was the De Ambrogio Ranch that caught Daryl Groom's eye several years ago when Galleano finally persuaded him to visit the Cucamonga Valley. Executive vice president of winemaking for Geyser Peak and a native of Australia, Groom, who used to produce Penfolds Grange, was immediately struck by the similarity of Cucamonga's old vineyards to Grange's Kalimna vineyards in the Barossa Valley.

"Kalimna's vines were 50 to 100 years old, and they were scraggly little vines, low to the ground, in deep sand or hardpan clay. Very unforgiving soils that tended to restrict vine growth and give small yields, but intense flavor," recalls Groom. "When I first went down to Cucamonga and had a look, I couldn't believe the similarity, particularly when my feet were sinking 3 to 4 inches in the sand. I was like a kid in a candy store. All these wonderful old vines that nobody else wanted!"

In 1997, Geyser Peak Winery made a Zinfandel from Cucamonga's De Ambrogio Vineyard, which James Laube rated 91 points on Wine Spectator's 100-point scale, saying it was "brimming with ripe berry, plum and spice flavors that linger enticingly ... has the feel of old vines, with depth and character to burn." Since then, Groom has made a 1999 bottling and has also produced old-vine Cucamonga Grenache and Mourvèdre for a forthcoming Rhône-style blend under the Geyser Peak label. "Being Australian, I was unsure about putting Cucamonga on the label because it sounded so funny," confesses Groom. "But we're so glad that we did because people are recognizing it, and I hope it's helped create interest in that area again."

Groom is hardly the only out-of-area vintner to recognize the distinctiveness of Cucamonga fruit. Up and down the state, wineries including Seghesio, Callaway, Ironstone, Hart, Mt. Palomar, Thornton and Firestone, have produced Cucamonga bottlings or used the fruit to add character to blends. Barry Bergman, winemaker for the R.H. Phillips Wine Company in Esparto, Calif., has been buying Cucamonga grapes for more than a decade. In recent years, he has produced a single-vineyard Cucamonga Zinfandel under the Kempton Clark label from the Lopez Ranch, a 130-acre tract of old vines at the base of the San Gabriel foothills, which is now surrounded on three sides by housing developments.

A sad but familiar sight in the Cucamonga Valley today -- the construction of a mall overruning prime vineyards; only a handful of vintners remain in the area.

Bergman is a fan of what he calls the "Cucamonga character," a taste that he says is born of old vines, low yields and the region's hot, dry climate. "There's definitely a terroir in the Cucamonga Valley, and it's not your typical North Coast fresh-fruit character," Bergman explains. "It's got a barnyardy, minerally, earthy character, with very ripe, jammy fruit. No other appellation in California produces a flavor profile like it."

Ironically, the vintners who are based in the Cucamonga Valley have not, until recently, made much of this unique terroir. Despite the valley's long history, it was only in 1995 that the Filippi brothers petitioned the BATF for a Cucamonga Valley AVA, allowing them and other vintners to state the grapegrowing region on a wine label. This was very late in the game, an indication of how little consciousness there was among local vintners about the importance of promoting the region as an entity.

Since the AVA status was granted, both Filippi and Galleano have begun to produce premium-priced reds that showcase old-vine Cucamonga varietals -- instead of blending them into anonymous jug-reds. In addition to a distinctive old-vine Zinfandel, Filippi produces a Grenache-Mourvèdre blend called Rochelle (named after winemaker Nick Karavidas' daughter) and a reserve Mourvèdre made from a vineyard that had been abandoned for 25 years, which the winery recently resuscitated.

For his part, Don Galleano has invested in modernizing his historic winery, and four years ago, he hired young winemaker Jason R.C. Bushong. Bushong has been responsible for a series of very good old-vine Zinfandels under the "Pioneer's Legendary" designation, as well as some impressive single-vineyard Zins from the Lopez Ranch (also called the San Sevine Ranch).

Happily, these types of wines fit today's taste for robust reds. And most of Filippi's and Galleano's old-vine Cucamonga varietals sell in the $9 to $14 range, reasonable prices by anyone's standards.

But that's the problem. The prices are too low for a property owner to justify keeping an acre planted to grapes in an area where real estate is priced by the square foot.

Making wine in a rapidly growing urban area requires skills they don't teach at enology school. Cucamonga's vintners have become adept at wheeling and dealing with property owners and developers, arranging to farm vineyards until the 11th hour, when it's time to bring in the bulldozers to prepare for the new distribution center, strip mall or tract of homes. Karavidas tells of begging developers to hold off until his picking crew can get the grapes in.

"They won't stop for a million bucks," he laments. "We have some leases where there are no guarantees. We had a situation recently where we pruned and farmed 15 acres of Zin over the winter, and we lost about 10 [that were bulldozed under] just a few weeks before harvestable fruit. It really hurts sometimes."

Local officials are sympathetic to the vintners' plight, but say there's not much they can do. "Legally, you can't tell someone they can't develop their property," says Diane Williams, Rancho Cucamonga's mayor pro tempore. However, city planners now encourage developers to use grapevines as buffers around their tracts. And the vintners have learned to hunt down parcels of land that can't be developed -- such as those in utility corridors or awkwardly shaped "leftover" plots adjacent to a development -- but that can be leased and then planted with grapevines. Karavidas and the Filippis even cut a deal with a Texas firm, Heritage Bag Company, to plant a vineyard on 5 acres in front of the firm's Rancho Cucamonga plant. It's land that otherwise would have been conventionally landscaped. Heritage Bag receives income and the satisfaction of being a good corporate citizen, and the Filippis get their grapes.

But the new vineyards can't replace 80- to 100-year-old grapevines. And both new plantings and old vines are threatened by the recent appearance of the glassy-winged sharpshooter, which carries Pierce's disease. Pierce's is a growing problem in Cucamonga, so the risk of spreading the sharpshooter, and thus the fatal vine-malady, clearly impacts the marketability of local grapes to out-of-area vintners.

These challenges haven't shaken the determination of the Filippi brothers and Don Galleano to stay in the Cucamonga Valley. These vintners are confident they can secure enough grapes to sustain their operations in the future, although they expect to rely increasingly on sources from outside their valley.

For now, at least, these last Cucamonga holdouts are selling a taste of California wine history -- an experience that can be had with the twist of a corkscrew. It's an experience that becomes more tenuous with the passing of each harvest.

Others are moving on. Despite his track record with Lopez Ranch Zinfandel, Barry Bergman didn't buy any this year. "The main reason is the uncertainty of the future of those vineyards," he explains. "There's no long-term guarantee -- other than it will be tract homes or warehouses. It's a great area with a great agricultural heritage, but like many parts of California, it's going away."

An Interview With Ernest Gallo

June 30, 1999

Marvin R. Shanken: It's quite remarkable that you're celebrating your 90th birthday. I'd like to start off by asking you for your first memories, your first recollections of drinking wine. Do you remember when you first had wine?

Ernest Gallo: Yes, I do. I was 5 years old, living with my grandfather and grandmother. It was during the vintage season. My grandfather had a 20-acre vineyard out near Hanford, Calif. He had a small, what he called winery, in the backyard--a shed about the size of a normal room. He had a small tank in there and a wine press. That's one of my first memories. I still can see, today, two men there on the bar of the press, pressing that wine, and they'd stop and rest awhile as the juice ran out the bottom. They had a tin cup. They used to take it and fill the tin cup, take a sip, put it down, rest awhile and go at pressing again.

Shanken: Do you remember what kind of wine it was?

Gallo: A red wine.

Shanken: Did you like drinking wine then?

Gallo: Well, when I saw them doing this, I, as a child, also took the cup of wine and tasted it. It tasted very good, slightly sweet. And I still can remember to this day these two guys laughing, really laughing. Next thing I remember, I woke up in my grandmother's bed. It was my first and last drunk.

Shanken: Before 1933, when Prohibition was repealed, did you spend much time in the wine business? What did wine mean to you growing up?

Gallo: During my teenage years, during Prohibition, a family was permitted to make 200 gallons of wine for their own use. And so my father used to make a barrel or two of wine every year. We used to help him. In those days what you did was you put the grapes in a tub, and with your bare feet, squeeze it and press it. That was the extent of the experiences for my brother and me. Later Julio and I worked in the vineyards. We worked in the vineyards until the Prohibition.

Shanken: Were you waiting for the end of Prohibition to start your company? You and your brother working together, was it always your adult idea--dream--to start a wine company?

Gallo: I should say a year or two before Prohibition was repealed, starting in about 1930, we did start thinking that if the law would change that we'd like to get involved in the wine business.

Shanken: Was there a time in the early days when you and Julio sat down and talked about building a wine company? I can't imagine that you talked about creating something of the magnitude that you've created. What kind of dreams did you have?

Gallo: I really can't describe them as dreams. In the last two or three years of Prohibition, my father sent me and Julio to Chicago to sell our grapes to home winemakers. What happened is, in 1932 there was no production, a disastrous market. My father lost very heavily. In fact most shippers lost everything they had, and my father passed away in May of '33. Prohibition, it had been announced, would be repealed on Dec. 5 of '33. But my father left these small vineyards hopelessly in debt. Like everyone else, we were in danger of losing them. And at that time, the price of grapes was only $8 a ton. That would not have made enough money to pay off the debts that my father owed. And we thought that our going into the wine business, taking the crop, converting it into wine when the law permitted, would probably yield enough profits to save the property, and that's what we did.

Shanken: How long did you struggle before you realized that you were building a successful company?

Gallo: From the day we went into the wine business we never thought there was any such thing as failing. It was just another day's work. Shanken: How did it come about that Julio was in charge of production and you were in charge of sales and marketing?

Gallo: Julio always preferred gardening, raising things, being in the field, and he nicely gravitated toward planting vineyards and taking care of them. I, on the other hand, gravitated toward getting to know the retailer, getting to understand marketing, and I spent my time doing that.

Shanken: You make it sound very simple. Many people consider you the father of the modern wine industry. And from a sales and marketing standpoint you were clearly a giant and a leader ahead of your time, yet you've had no formal training. How did you develop the expertise in sales and marketing without having gotten it from schooling or work experience--how does one do this?

Gallo: In the first place I think it's an overstatement to say that--whatever word you used, the reference to me--the fact is that when we made the wine then, of course, the next thing was to sell it, using common sense as far as I was concerned. Go and call the retailer, look his shop over and talk to him. From that, decide what would make good common sense to get him to buy my product. In those days, 1933 and '34, there was very little advertising, and the consumer depended upon the recommendation of their retailer, but the retailer had hundreds of brands, so it was impractical for me to expect him to recommend my brand. But it didn't take much to reason that if I could get the best spot in the store with my product, that, in fact, was a silent recommendation from the retailer. So we struggled and planned how to get a good spot on the shelf and also on the floor.

Shanken: There's a story that goes around and around that Julio always wanted to make more wine than you could sell, and you wanted to sell more wine than he could make. Is this a true story?

Gallo: We kidded a lot about that. With it all, we felt that every year we wanted to sell more wine. And that meant making better wine, constantly better, and with that we did increase our volume continually, then expanded our distribution.

Shanken: In an article in 1986 in Wine Spectator, it was said, "There's almost a feeling of immortality about Ernest. Nothing stands in his way." You're 90 years old. In recent years, you've lost your wife of 62 years, Amelia; a son, David; and a brother, Julio. How do you feel about your own mortality?

Gallo: It's tragic. They were all such great people, all so unfair that they had to leave when they did. Shanken: In another interview eight years ago, when we talked about the future of Gallo and Sonoma, you said to me, "It's the last mountain to climb."

Gallo: (Laughs)

Shanken: Remember that?

Gallo: Yes, I do.

Shanken: Today we went on a tour, a helicopter ride to see the vineyards, visited the winery, saw the barrel-aging room and so forth. Are you at the top of the mountain?

Gallo: No.

Shanken: Why not?

Gallo: There's still so much to do.

Shanken: Look at what you've accomplished with the help of your family, your friends, your employees. It is almost beyond comprehension, what you've achieved. And yet you're not satisfied. Even when we walked around and tasted wine, there wasn't one wine you were happy with; you found a fault with every wine. Is that a good trait or a bad trait?

Gallo: You may be a better judge of whether that's a good trait or not. Either properly or improperly I've always tried to get my people to strive for perfection. We never achieve it. But by trying, we generally improve.

Shanken: So there has never been a moment in your life when you have taken a deep breath and said, "I've done it."

Gallo: I've never done anything that's come close to being perfect. Shanken: What are your important concerns today? Regarding the family business, regarding the future of wine in America, whatever subject--what bothers Ernest Gallo?

Gallo: What bothers me is that our industry has not achieved the status that it really deserves.
Shanken: In terms of the size of the market? In terms of the number of drinkers?

Gallo: In all of those; I think that there's considerable room for making a product that is more generally accepted than it is. What we make is considered very good. In fact, we think there in Sonoma we make probably the best wines in the world, but still, that's judged by what you'd call responsible wine drinkers, experienced wine drinkers. But we think the market's potential is much larger than that. And we should have something that would appeal to a broader spectrum than what we have today. That not only goes for us but for the industry.

Shanken: Has Ernest Gallo slowed down much in recent years?

Gallo: What do you mean by slowing down?

Shanken: Well, what is a typical day? What time do you wake up in the morning?

Gallo: 7 o'clock.

Shanken: And then, what's your day like?

Gallo: Then I go out and exercise. I walk during weekdays--briskly walk a half hour. Saturdays and Sundays I walk an hour, then I'll have breakfast. During weekdays I go to the office, work through lunch, leave the office around 6:30, come home and have dinner. After dinner I put in about three hours--homework that I bring from the office. Saturdays and Sundays, I'll finish up what I didn't have time to do during the week.

Shanken: It doesn't sound like you're taking advantage of your old age very much.

Gallo: I think I am. I think I am.

Shanken: Is the organization pretty much geared to run without you at this point?

Gallo: Yes, it certainly is. We have great people, really great people.

Shanken: Is there an Ernest Gallo in the wings waiting to take over?

Gallo: Oh, there's several of them. Several of them.

Shanken: So you're comfortable in terms of the future leadership of the company?

Gallo: Yes, it may be a better company after I'm gone than it is now.

Shanken: The California wine industry has had, really, in the last 50 years, two leaders: you and Robert Mondavi. Who is going to lead the California wine industry after you and Robert are gone? Is there another generation--a next generation--of leadership?

Gallo: Well, that's a real tough question. Real tough question. Shanken: I know how much the California wine industry means to you, and I know how hard you've worked for many, many years trying to change and upgrade a lot of the state and local regulations, which have tried to strangle the wine industry across America. Won't there be a vacuum after the two of you are no longer here? Will that be a serious problem?

Gallo: Not at all.

Shanken: No?

Gallo: Not at all. Not only in my organization, but in others there are some very capable people. Very capable--in some respects even more than Bob and I. I think that some of them drive this industry far beyond what it is today. No question about it.

Shanken: How do you tell a stranger about what you've accomplished in Sonoma? How do you describe what you've created there?

Gallo: I don't try to talk about it. I don't have that talent or ability.

Shanken: Well, when I was talking to Gina and Matt earlier today, they told me that they were able to buy the best vineyard land and equipment that the world had to offer without compromise in order to produce world-class wines. And they were very grateful, because it's allowing them to make such great wines. Did you--I know you're going to say no, but I'm going to ask you anyway--did you ever have any doubts, any fears that you would be unsuccessful in Sonoma?

Gallo: Never.

Shanken: In other words, in your mind you were going to do it; you were going to do it right, it was going to be a success and there was no possibility of failure?

Gallo: That's absolutely right. In nothing that my brother and I ever undertook did we have the slightest doubt it would be successful. Shanken: That gene, that attitude, where did you get it? Where did you get such self-confidence that you can do the impossible and do it calmly?

Gallo: We didn't do the impossible; we did the obvious.

Shanken: Why was it that you were able to do it and most others weren't?

Gallo: I'm not so sure that others didn't. In fact, I'm sure they have. There's many people in the wine business that started with handicaps equal to ours, if not greater, and have done extremely well and deserve an enormous amount of credit.

Shanken: Eight years ago, we talked about what you were going to call the wines that you were going to make in Sonoma. I and many others thought the last thing you should call it was "Gallo," because the brand name was associated with inexpensive wine. You were very determined to use the Gallo name. It turns out that you used the Gallo name, and it worked. But what was the logic at that time, because it seemed so risky, as opposed to starting new and fresh with a new name or an acquisition?

Gallo: I am really surprised that you felt it'd be risky. Some of the others felt the same way. But again, to me it was crystal clear that the Sonoma winery would be very successful providing we turned out the quality of wine for people to judge as the best in the state. And Gallo-Sonoma--the name--succeeded because we were successful in making the best wine in the state. When you make the best wine in the state, you can call it almost anything--people will accept it. Does that answer your question?

Shanken: Yes, but you were surrounded by people inside the winery and outside the winery that thought you were crazy. Yes or no?

Gallo: Yes.

Shanken: And I remember when I said that in most classic marketing situations brand marketers build from the top down, using the image and reputation at the top to build volume underneath it--as with Robert Mondavi, Inglenook, Beringer, Beaulieu and others. You said that they were depreciating the value of their image by doing that, and that by your going into the premium end using your own name, you were increasing the value and the image of your brand name.

Gallo: That's one. Aside from that, it's so much more fun doing it the way I did it.
Shanken: I think you called yourself a builder, not a buyer.

Gallo: That's right. It's so much more fun to build something than just go out and buy something. There's more satisfaction in building.

Shanken: Will premium wine ever become the largest part of your business?

Gallo: It'll become the largest part of our wine business, but we're in other things, as you know, like brandy and liquor and carbonated wine, which are units in themselves. As far as table wine's concerned, it's going to become very significant. I'm not going to say it's necessarily the biggest, because there are other areas in the table wine business that have great potential in the way of new products.

Shanken: In Gallo of Sonoma you have acquired some masterful pieces of real estate for vineyard development. Why not some day, Gallo of Napa, Gallo of Mendocino--wherever quality grapes are grown?

Gallo: Well, like you said a little while ago, I like to start from the bottom and work up. Some people think Napa has a greater reputation. I'd hate to go there now after we've already established that Sonoma's so much better.
Shanken: Do you rule out the possibility of going to other fine wine regions of California in the future?

Gallo: Not at all. Not at all. It depends entirely on what we find there, to go in that area and do something there particularly noteworthy. Otherwise, why should we go?

Shanken: When did you and Julio make the final decision to aggressively expand in Sonoma? I know that you've been buying grapes from the Frei Brothers winery for decades, and I am told that you started buying an interest in the winery in 1970, with formal ownership of your first vineyard there in 1977. But at what time, before or after 1977, did you and he agree that this would be the next big push for Gallo?

Gallo: It must've been around that time. It's something that we felt would happen as the opportunity developed.

Shanken: You used to tout Gallo's Hearty Burgundy over first-growth Bordeaux. Now that you're in the premium end of the wine business, have your tastes changed?

Gallo: I haven't tasted first-growth Bordeaux in years. Some day I'd like to taste it against our Gallo-Sonoma and see how it rates. Where wines of all over the world are in competition, we have done exceedingly well.

Shanken: Tell me about your new campaign, in which for the first time you're using younger family members as spokespeople and in your advertising. What made you decide to go in that direction, which is most unusual for your very private company?

Gallo: The third generation has become increasingly active and responsible for our winemaking, our grape-growing and now even in our sales. And I think it's proper and timely for us to recognize that.

Shanken: You and Julio have 20 grandchildren, of which 17 are in the company today. I imagine that pleases you very much.

Gallo: Yes. I'm very happy to see them participate so effectively. Shanken: What do you think of the future for California wine exports around the world?

Gallo: I wish that we would have a level playing field. I'd like to see an equalization of the tariffs. In every country outside of the United States the tariffs are much higher than the tariffs of wine coming into the United States. If those tariffs were harmonized with ours, I think we'd have a great opportunity because of the quality of our products, even though our labor costs generally are much higher than wines in Chile and Argentina and other parts of the world. Also our land costs a lot more. Still, even with those handicaps, if tariffs were harmonized, I think we'd get a very appreciative share of the world business. Our quality is really constantly being improved and being recognized.

Shanken: You have always paid a lot of attention to your diet, to exercise and to drinking wine every day. Do you believe that wine is one of the main reasons that you not only lived to 90, but that your mind is as sharp as it was 30 years ago?

Gallo: Well, I'm not sure. But I do take very good care of myself in that I eat what everybody knows now is a proper diet. As far as wine's concerned, it's true that I drink two glasses of wine a day: one for lunch and one for dinner. I read quite a few research reports that found--or they state they have found--that wine is good for the heart, extends life and all things of that type. Whether that's true or not, I don't know enough about it to comment on it. I do know that some people shouldn't be drinking at all. And no one, if they're not drinking wine now, should start drinking wine unless they talk to their doctor and see if they can handle it without risk.

Shanken: What was the biggest challenge that you faced in building Gallo?

Gallo: That when I wanted to get started, I went to some of my relatives. I wanted to borrow $5,000. They told me they had no money to lose.

Shanken: The landscape of the California wine industry 50 years ago included such giant wine companies as Italian Swiss Colony, Roma, Petri, among others--big, strong wine companies, none of which are in existence any more. Obviously, you did things differently than they did. What was your strength? What was their weakness that they couldn't survive?

Gallo: I'd say two things. One, I went into retail stores. And two, we made better wine.

Shanken: When you said you went into retail stores, what I assume you're really saying is you wanted to see what consumers were buying. Now we're up to the 1980s. What was your reaction when it was announced that Coca-Cola was going into the wine business, which at the time was headline news because Coca-Cola was the giant of the soft drink industry. Did you ever feel threatened by it?

Gallo: Not at all. Not at all.

Shanken: They say that Pepsi is better because of Coke. Were there things that you did to adjust? It would seem to me that you had, up until then, eliminated your competition, and now comes along one of the great blue-chips of America, Coca-Cola, to be in the wine business. It had to concern you. Didn't it?

Gallo: At that time, we did not feel that we had eliminated competition. The wine business had been very competitive from the very start. In fact it's as competitive today, or maybe more so. As far as Coca-Cola's concerned, they, without question, are experts in selling soft drinks. Selling wine is obviously different. All we did when they came in was continue doing what we were doing, but doing it better.

Shanken: Do you have any regrets, or are there any things you would like to have done differently in your business?

Gallo: No.

Shanken: Or that you didn't do, and wish you had?

Gallo: No.

Shanken: Do you see per capita consumption of wine in America growing?

Gallo: It will.

Shanken: Because?

Gallo: New products.

Shanken: It's 50 years from now. It's 2050, and there's a big, fat book on your great-grandson's desk that says, "Encyclopedia of Wine." He turns to page 172, and it says "Ernest Gallo." What would you like it to read?

Gallo: He was here.

Shanken: Seriously, what do you feel is your lasting contribution to wine? I know it's hard because you don't like to speak of yourself, but is there something you can say?

Gallo: Not really.

Shanken: Not for me, but for your grandchildren?

Gallo: Neither for them. I mean, nothing that I've done is outstanding, deserves to be put down in stone.

Shanken: I have one last question: In a number of months, we're going to be reaching the new millennium. Have you thought about what you'll be drinking that night?

Gallo: (With a smile) Gallo-Sonoma.